Comments on: The Rise of the Pragmatic Agnostic http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/ Using transparency and other management techniques to change who I am and what I'm about Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:35:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: abclarke http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-1397 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 02:42:54 +0000 http://abclarke.wordpress.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-1397 Perhaps the right answer is a balance of idealism and pragmatism? Idealism on its own, without the balance of pragmatism, leads towards great evils (Fascism being a great example).

But unguided pragmatism leads towards lives lacking in principle and often times evils (though lesser) such as infidelity, theiving and murder. For example, without the ideal of external life and/or nirvana and/or heaven (etc.), why would a pragmatic person not steal or cheat a neighbor when the chances of being caught are 0%?

I do believe that both principles are required, in balance, to lead a healthy life. My larger point is that Idealism gets the headlines, but pragmatism does most of the work.

]]> By: Ryan http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-1388 Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:36:18 +0000 http://abclarke.wordpress.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-1388 [Quote]:100% agreed. idealism is necessary. it’s the dream. pragmatism on its own is dangerous without guiding principles.[/Quote]

Wrong.

Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Christian Fundamentalism, Zionism and Jihadism rely all on what they see as right or wrong. They all base on ideals and guiding principles and lure so called idealistic people on the path of destruction by imposing their moral system on others. Idealism is far more dangerous than pragmatism because it’s highly irrational and based on emotions and value judgements.

I recommend to do some research about MBTI and the Rational type. To learn more about pragmatic people.

]]> By: Andy Krumel http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-1383 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:52:49 +0000 http://abclarke.wordpress.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-1383 Still logical – a nice invariant.

Why the need to connect Sprituality with a devine force?

Here is a definition of Sprituality from the web which I can indentify: “An inner sense of something greater than oneself. Recognition of a meaning to existence that transcends one’s immediate circumstances.”

Love the sprituality angle to your life exploration. Something to learn from there.

]]> By: Art Clarke http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-188 Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:26:12 +0000 http://abclarke.wordpress.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-188 Thanks Matt,

I am a big time believer in laziness, but more specifically applied laziness. You can get much more done with it than without. See http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/06/01/daydream-laziness-looking-at-the-negative/

- Art

]]> By: Matt K http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-187 Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:03:09 +0000 http://abclarke.wordpress.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-187 Hey Art,

This is great, and definitively not awesome.

In addition to enjoying your writing style, content, and your personal goals, this caught my attention: “I believe in laziness, and hence pragmatically believe it’s worth learning as much as possible from others.”

I can’t help thinking that when it comes to your belief in laziness, you’re a bigtime sinner!

Looking forward to reading through your other posts…

]]> By: dannyman http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-167 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:00:15 +0000 http://abclarke.wordpress.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-167 I realize that I am probably just babbling things that you have said with greater care, but perhaps the above comment may serve as a useful summary. :) -d

]]> By: dannyman http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-166 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:56:22 +0000 http://abclarke.wordpress.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-166 Art,

Your thinking is very much along my lines, and I too experienced a CEO we’ll call “Mike” and it took me awhile to embrace the “awesome” but now I dig it too.

What I would add is that any individual person is a complex system. Understanding other human beings takes a lot of work, and presenting yourself to others also takes a lot of work. To that end, the “cheating” where you try to present yourself as more awesome than you really are can quickly come across as disingenuous–see how many folks resist the “awesome” . . . is he faking it or does he really drink his own Kool-Aid?

So, when the question comes to doing right, which can also get complicated, cultivating spiritual value can help center a person around an important idea. That is why I like to try and pray, Atheist that I am: I don’t think I’m communicating to a god, but I am taking a moment to consider what is important, and hopefully better align my actions–conscious AND unconscious–around that which I believe to be good and holy.

I think “God” is really a tool of convenience that many of us deploy to get to the important bits of living a life in spiritual harmony with the Universe. But you needn’t do it for God or for the Afterlife, do it because you’re a human being fulfilling a spiritual need that has been cultivated in our species to foster harmony amongst us.

And, because, personally, I think if you can find what is good in the Universe and plug into making that better, you find yourself in a much better place than when you take some other approach: positivity promotes success more than negativity, and Mike didn’t get where he has gone without a Faith in “awesome”.

Sincerely,
-danny

]]> By: Art Clarke http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-162 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:27:43 +0000 http://abclarke.wordpress.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-162 100% agreed. idealism is necessary. it’s the dream. pragmatism on its own is dangerous without guiding principles.

]]> By: PB and J http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-161 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:13:09 +0000 http://abclarke.wordpress.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-161 art

good pt. but what about this…

idealism is important, but without action it is useless.

pragmatism without ideals will lead to anything we choose.

peter

]]> By: Art Clarke http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-160 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:03:36 +0000 http://abclarke.wordpress.com/2007/08/22/the-rise-of-the-pragmatic-agnostic/#comment-160 I agree with you on idealism versus pragmatism. My belief on the value of pragmatism is that pragmatism always trumps idealism as a way to get something done, but that only by having an ideal end goal do you do something worthy.

It’s the essence of Day Dreaming, Laziness and Looking at the Negative (see http://blog.abclarke.com/2007/06/01/daydream-laziness-looking-at-the-negative/). You need the idealist goal (long term) but it’s pragmatic steps (short term) that get you there.

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